Well last I checked, putting regulators in was on Rattati's plan, which is why I used it as an example.

And yes i would like the return of many of those old low slot modules. I miss my Nano fit vehicles.

But yes, I want valuable low slot modules so there are more options besides more resources.

REALLY! That's a new one. Guess that speed is too much to handle for most tankers. Must be a top tier tanker thing.

Naw, WAY higher than that!

But anyways, you aren't "sacrificing" anything when you fit a nitro. Used properly, it works just like any other defensive module would work. Too many people get caught up in this idea that HP and Defense are the only way to go.

Speed is key in engagements. It comes down to fitting either an extender, booster, or nitro. All viable options, with the latter booster and nitro being a bit stronger in my opinion for staying power. This is of course using double hardeners. That way you can stack some armor for a bit added D.

Don't knock it til you try it. I've noticed a lot of PC players using it, in addition to the booster over a nitro. My high defense fits couldn't stack up which is why I was forced to adapt. Speed is key, can't kill it if you can't hit it.

Don't get stuck in the box, step out every now and again. It's more or less how I imagine a Dhav would work.

I basically took my current 3 slot layout on my high slot modules I use currently and built out from there. Keep in mind none of these use the new "HAV" tanks as these are not going to be used in the competitive PC environment that. In fact, something to note, gunners tanks (those using smalls) in any iteration will more than likely NEVER be used in PC. That's what I call a Pub Scrub tank:)

Ummm, duh? I'm sorry, when I say passive resists I mean like we had pre 1.6. Sorry I'm a long time tanker and forget to clarify, I simply assume everyone knows what I mean:) Of course by module. That's why I say you wouldn't need to run multiple hardeners with a small passive resist module.

And you being an AV guy, saying AV needs no tweaking. OMG dude, the hell they won't. They won't be able to scratch most of these tanks fits. Maybe armor, but there really need to be some more shield based AV out there.

Gunnlogi is OP with the current setup, still.

I am well aware that AV will need tweaking. I've been keeping silent on the AV until the HAVs are finalized per my understanding of Rattati's priorities. Other people have said that AV will need to be toned down or not be touched. I'm fully aware of what AV will need to burn down the new HAVs.

I'm keeping silent because I don't really feel like starting a screaming riot until everyone is done gloating about how AV will be useless tank side.

I've already done the calculations for what it'll take for AV to stand a chance. Especially with AV-resistant UHAVs on the horizon.

Before you ask, no, I don't think AV should be balanced to fight UHAVs solo. MBTs yes. UHAVs, no.

[quote=True Adamance]
I mean I know FW can be competitive, but there is nothing like a 16 vs 16 fully prepped and ALWAYS proto team.

fairly bold statements there bunky. Historically statements like this have been proven false repeatedly.

if AV isn't to be buffed in response to the new HAVs then we should just leave HAVs as they are now.

compromise: when nobody leaves happy.

But no. You dont get improved tanks and demand that AV be marginalized to worthlessness. That's not a solution.

Plus LAVs are too durable anyway. A militia trash LAV takes multiple shots from proto antitank guns to kill even if no modules are loaded.

Kill LAVs my ass.

You're reaching pretty hard asserting dropships even.

Try again.

Hah, ok.

And just yesterday evening I sat there and ate swarms and shrugged them on like they were nothing in my gunnlogi. See I made swarms look and feel underpowered.

So from that I MUST conclude that swarms need a buff.

See what I did there?

As is yours. That was kinda the point.

And you just admitted to it.

But seriously, what is wrong with you guys. Seriously, swarms OP? If anything it shows a disparity with armor which IS acknowledge and IS being addressed.

I mean google "reasonable" and then try being it for a change. Screaming that you are right and everyone else is wrong just makes you look stupid and uneducated. I

Only spkr would argue that it's unfair for proto AV to smash a militia tank.

But at least over the last two years he's consistent!

Well, one Cx damage modded IAFG deals about 700 DPS before proficiency/bonuses; it's hardly uncommon to be attacked by multiple AV users, and a single Wiyrkomi MinMando will kill an unhardened Madrugar in seven seconds (assuming two damage mods and maxed proficiency we have one second between volleys and three seconds to reload. First volley strips shields, second and third take the HAV down to about 800 HP fourth volley kills the HAV. I'm also assuming two repairers, because plates are garbage). Hardened, that increases to eight seconds - the fifth volley will kill the HAV.
Eight seconds is a long time; it's usually long enough to escape. The MinMando will gain some 3-400 WP out of this. If he has a friend, or he's firing invisibly, you die. One or both of these things are frequent.

It is also perfectly doable to solo a Gunnlogi as a forge-gunner; four shots from a damage-modded IAFG and two Lai-Dai Packed AV grenades will kill pretty much anything, assuming you've already forced the triggering of the hardener (if you didn't why are you bothering?).

Essentially, what's happened is that the only way to survive as a tanker is to either stay in the redline and only come out while hardeners are up and you're certain you won't be ganked upon leaving, or to be so much more skilled and prepared than the AV player that there's nothing he can do (like the idiots who insist on firing swarms at my hardened shield tank, versus the times when I dance around blasters in the street in my Sentinel to score an easy kill).
In the meantime the AV player is making bank, and you're making a loss.

If we are worried about balancing in ambush, just remove vehicles all together from oms. ..


The only thing keeping tanks alive as long as they are now is the ability to stack hardeners, removing this ability, while nerfing shield regen and cpu/pg chips, nerfing base HP of hulls to force the 2 extra slots to be filled with isk costing hp modules, all add up to a vehicle nerf. Armor tanks seem to be in a better place though.

Seems like this was more of an AV buff initiative then a ' let's make tanks useful and give them something to do'

This does make me wonder though, how much of a buff does the maddie need to be on par with infantry AV and would such a buff put them over the top against a gunnlogi.

Agreed, I've suggested multiple times in the past that we use current weapons, tacking on different damage profiles. EM swarm launchers, can you imagine the tears that would flow!

Would rather see though some amar and minmatar weapons to fill the gap. At least then it wouldn't be spec into FG or SL and have the best of all worlds. At least then you would have to spec into another weapon to achieve the same goals.